Q about rev C early adopter system

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ZeroByte
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Q about rev C early adopter system

Post by ZeroByte » Mon May 06, 2019 3:52 am

My trigger finger's itching to get one. My question is how likely is it to remain comparable to the final system? Will we have access to documentation etc?
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stef
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Re: Q about rev C early adopter system

Post by stef » Mon May 06, 2019 6:43 am

ZeroByte wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 3:52 am
My trigger finger's itching to get one. My question is how likely is it to remain comparable to the final system? Will we have access to documentation etc?
Hey ZeroByte,

The main difference in between the Rev C development System and the End User version (if we ever get there) Is for one probably the whole enclosure would be different, there will probably be some cost reduction choices made. The unit will have to be certified for FCC and EU stuff like that. Overall, in term of functionality, it would be exactly the same aside from that it won't have a Debug Mode Connector. On the other hand, the User version is planned for Early Spring 2020 and Rev C is months away. it is really up to you at this point.

Since Rev C is about Content creation, of course you will have access to all the documentation and all the support you can get. The point of this is really to have people creating content to help the ecosystem of the machine. Without content, it will make the survival of this platform very difficult.

So I hope this will answer your questions.

Cheers

Stefany
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bzuidgeest
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Re: Q about rev C early adopter system

Post by bzuidgeest » Mon May 06, 2019 9:00 am

ZeroByte wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 3:52 am
My trigger finger's itching to get one. My question is how likely is it to remain comparable to the final system? Will we have access to documentation etc?
I already pulled the trigger. Both to support the project and in hopes of creating something for it. I doubt everything will be polished when I get one. But I get what stef wants. In a few months the "base" system will stand. Kernel and basic being workable, most hardware bugs gone (hopefully). Then you need some people to create for it so that when you present this to the larger public there is something to see... Great hardware cannot survive if nobody is interested. But it is somewhat expensive (cannot be avoided). The one thing the cx16 seems to be better at is attracting a larger community of dreamers, but I'm not sure how to fix that. Then again most are just that dreamers (consumers not developers)...

Me I ordered the board only as I see it as a tinkering system and cases just get in the way. Is a little bit cheaper to.

I'm not actually sure how large the foenix community is but we might have to do some advertising to let the public know the system exists. At the very least a youtube video annoucement?
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Re: Q about rev C early adopter system

Post by jcook793 » Mon May 06, 2019 3:11 pm

I also pulled the trigger just now. Been following Stefany's progress and I knew when the January update came out that I'd have to buy one of these. I haven't seen anyone comment on the fact that is has MIDI built-in -- that's simply awesome!

I'm not sure how much time I'll have to develop any content this summer (I have a couple of C64 project irons in the fire right now), but hopefully by winter I can start to explore what's possible. Guess I'll need to learn some 65816, eh?
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stef
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Re: Q about rev C early adopter system

Post by stef » Mon May 06, 2019 5:15 pm

bzuidgeest wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 9:00 am
ZeroByte wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 3:52 am
My trigger finger's itching to get one. My question is how likely is it to remain comparable to the final system? Will we have access to documentation etc?
I already pulled the trigger. Both to support the project and in hopes of creating something for it. I doubt everything will be polished when I get one. But I get what stef wants. In a few months, the "base" system will stand. Kernel and basic being workable, most hardware bugs are gone (hopefully). Then you need some people to create for it so that when you present this to the larger public there is something to see... Great hardware cannot survive if nobody is interested. But it is somewhat expensive (cannot be avoided). The one thing the cx16 seems to be better at is attracting a larger community of dreamers, but I'm not sure how to fix that. Then again most are just that dreamers (consumers not developers)...

Me I ordered the board only as I see it as a tinkering system and cases just get in the way. Is a little bit cheaper too.

I'm not actually sure how large the foenix community is but we might have to do some advertising to let the public know the system exists. At the very least a youtube video announcement?
I would say the Foenix community is basically inexistent right now aside of the few that are part of Phase I and that are working on the BASIC, Floppy Driver, GUI, Foenix IDE, etc... Lot of people over the first year came and went and aside of a few of them, most never stayed. A project like that doesn't produce instant gratification and since I am not a youtuber and I don't have time to be one, then most left. The deal right now will be to produce anything that will create a buzz big enough to get some decent amount of eyeballs on the project but also we will need to cross the threshold of 100 people doing something on the machine to get the monkey effect. Rev C is planned to get only 50 boards made, so still a long way. However, if the content for the machine is great and the few connections we have with real youtuber is there. Then this is possibly our way in.

Finally, the pricing, I know the unit rev C is fairly expensive and this will be addressed in the final version. I am not a much a competition type person but I am very aware of the possibilities of how having many options during 2020 could be an issue. Hence the reason why having developers ahead of time create content will give us an advantage.

-The M65 has its back compatibility to help it bring people in, yet new content is almost (I am not quite sure) inexistent. (Not sure how a Mega65 is supposed to cost?)

-The C16 has a large audience but most are not developers and the platform doesn't exist officially yet. (Price to be determined, supposed to be cheap though, however, I have a feeling that When things are said and done, it will probably be very close to the C256F)

-The C256F has a tiny audience, no backward compatibility, but offers the most amazing hardware for graphic and sound and exist now and being offered to a broader audience. But!, it is on the expensive side... For now anyway. However, with the right push, it could be the 2020 platform of choice.

Personally, I would rather have a small beginning and have a healthy growth than to have nothing and then a rush that I could not provide for...


PS: For me, a community is actual people getting involved in a project. Over the years, I got around 400 people who registered in the previous incarnation of the website, so I do have some kind of connection with a bunch of people.
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bzuidgeest
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Re: Q about rev C early adopter system

Post by bzuidgeest » Mon May 06, 2019 6:17 pm

I think it is "expensive", but as I said before not overly so. I can afford such a thing but that might not be true of everybody. The Ultimate 64 (https://ultimate64.com/Ultimate-64) is about 240 us dollar The mega65 will be at least that. And that is with far bigger audiences. I would prefer the foenix as it is in the spirit of the old machines. But it has a fresh and clean implementation, thus no weird stuff for backward compatibility. That just messes things up. So do not worry about the price, I think it is well price for what we are getting.
but offers the most amazing hardware for graphic and sound and exist now and being offered to a broader audience.
I've been looking for years at gameduino and such projects that claim to give good video and audio to smaller chips. If spec pans out, stef made a big understatement here. Even if the complete platform is not a success. The audio and video chip alone should be.

@jcook793, So al least there are now two of us :) The midi option is nice, but I'm not a musician thus would not know what to do with it. Though it might be a nice midi player with an old mt32 or sc55 connected to it. Have it play all that old game music. Maybe port some sierra games? They used interpreters and there are open source versions. Should be doable....
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Re: Q about rev C early adopter system

Post by stef » Mon May 06, 2019 6:34 pm

bzuidgeest wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 6:17 pm
I think it is "expensive", but as I said before not overly so. I can afford such a thing but that might not be true of everybody. The Ultimate 64 (https://ultimate64.com/Ultimate-64) is about 240 us dollar The mega65 will be at least that. And that is with far bigger audiences. I would prefer the foenix as it is in the spirit of the old machines. But it has a fresh and clean implementation, thus no weird stuff for backward compatibility. That just messes things up. So do not worry about the price, I think it is well price for what we are getting.
but offers the most amazing hardware for graphic and sound and exist now and being offered to a broader audience.
I've been looking for years at gameduino and such projects that claim to give good video and audio to smaller chips. If spec pans out, stef made a big understatement here. Even if the complete platform is not a success. The audio and video chip alone should be.

@jcook793, So al least there are now two of us :) The midi option is nice, but I'm not a musician thus would not know what to do with it. Though it might be a nice midi player with an old mt32 or sc55 connected to it. Have it play all that old game music. Maybe port some sierra games? They used interpreters and there are open source versions. Should be doable....
bzuidgeest,

Early adoption has a cost and it is true for all technologies. The newest LCD screen that you can bend that has a gazillion pixels and has an impossible contrast ration will cost a fortune the first time it comes out of the factory but a year or 2 in, it be decently priced for a wider audience.

The Foenix is the same, now it is more expensive but you have access to it way earlier and you get to play with something that is new, unknown and if the platform does pick up then you will be considered one of the pioneer if you have created something that people use. Like I said before the user version will have to be cost reduced and I will probably have to throw away the multiple FPGA version to save on cost which means that Rev C might be the only version that will maintain the early vision of the project. The same way the C64 was integrated into fewer IC over time, so the Foenix can get to the $250.00 Sweet spot. But without saying too much, there are other plans as well... ;)

Cheers

Stefany
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techristian
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Re: Q about rev C early adopter system

Post by techristian » Mon May 06, 2019 6:46 pm

What is C256F ?? This system now is C256C ? Am I correct ? Is C256F a STRIPPED DOWN version of C256C ?

Dan
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stef
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Re: Q about rev C early adopter system

Post by stef » Mon May 06, 2019 6:47 pm

techristian wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 6:46 pm
What is C256F ?? This system now is C256C ? Am I correct ? Is C256F a STRIPPED DOWN version of C256C ?

Dan
Dan,

C256F is short for C256 Foenix.
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ZeroByte
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Re: Q about rev C early adopter system

Post by ZeroByte » Mon May 06, 2019 6:59 pm

bzuidgeest wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 6:17 pm
Maybe port some sierra games? They used interpreters and there are open source versions. Should be doable....
A port of SCUMM VM would bring quite a bit of content to the system right away, that's for sure.
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